Saturday, July 30, 2011

Japanese Military Analyst: Chinese Nuclear Submarine Accident in Dalian, China??

and radiation is leaking, the analyst says. He also mentions the high-speed train accident, and says there are 259 people dead so far.

It was reported by Mamoru Sato on his blog on July 30. I have no idea who he really is, but the bio on his blog says he was a fighter pilot in the Self Defense Air Force of Japan, and was then a high-ranking officer and the commander of the several major air force bases in Japan until he retired from the service in 1997. Checking the biography in Wiki, it looks like he is indeed what he says he is.

Mr. Sato's July 30 blogpost:


According to the information I just obtained, a nuclear submarine of the Chinese Navy had an accident in the port of Dalian on July 29, and there is a leak of radiation. The area is strictly closed off by the Chinese military, and the situation is said to be very dangerous.


I doubt that the Chinese government will announce the accident. The neighboring countries should take defensive measures, and the Japanese fishing boats in the area should be careful.


One more thing. According to a "foreign" insurance company, China's high-speed train accident has 259 people dead, 183 injured, and 154 still missing. The numbers are set to increase, according to this insurance company.


The families of the victims continue to protest, and I've wondering about "missing" people. Now I begin to see why the Chinese government hastily doubled the compensation for the victims.


China's "hiding the accident" is well beyond that of Japan.


Anyway, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Japanese media should try to obtain more information about China's "nuclear leak accident". It is inevitable that a Chinese-made nuclear power plant will have an accident, and I'm concerned about the next year's "yellow sand" season. Just to let you know the news quickly.

I don't know if China's "hiding" is any worse than that of Japan, but if I see any confirming information I'll update.

After the Fukushima I nuclear accident, it dawned on many Japanese (probably for the first time) that almost entire Japan is DOWNWIND from China, who plans to have 100 nuclear power plants. And thanks to the Fukushima accident, many Japanese now know it's not the distance that matters when it comes to a nuclear power plant accident, but wind and weather.


Anonymous said...

Robbie001 sez:

I think the annual dust storms that blow in from China will become more of a problem as China expands its nuclear fuel cycle to accommodate future nuclear expansion. While there is lots of talk about China closing the thorium cycle their current and future PWR's don't. They currently import their fuel but they are looking to build an entire domestic civilian nuclear infrastructure. If you thought it was bad when Chinese goods had regular contamination just wait until they are petitioning the WTO to accept their radioactive products.

Refueling accidents can be an issue for compact Nuclear Naval Reactors most all of them run on highly enriched fissile material in the 90% range criticality/supercriticality can be a problem.

"There are two reasons why nuclear accidents with decommissioned non-defueled submarines may have serious consequences for the personel involved and for people living nearby. One is that non-defueled submarines with spent fuel in the reactors contain substantial amounts of longlived fission products such as 137Ce and 90Sr. Another is that there are mechanisms through which a significant fraction of these radionuclides may be released to the environment in the case of an accident. One such mechamism is supercriticality, another loss-of-cooling of the reactor core."

Accident in Nuclear Ships:

The Chinese talk a good environmental game but doesn't everyone before the accident?

Dalian Municipal Environmental Protection Bureau:

Anonymous said...

Sounds like working on a submarine is where brinksmanship finds its Seat.

Roving bombs at that degree of enrichment.

Anonymous said...

Robbie001 sez:

Then there is stuff like this to add to the problems. Once again the people who caused the problems don't pay to clean up their mess. This is why nuclear power is too cheap to meter.

"May 17, 2004
By Mark Trevelyan

BERLIN (Reuters) - Russia faces grave environmental and terrorist threats unless donors accelerate a slow trickle of international aid for dismantling its rusting nuclear submarines, a senior official said. "Any of the submarines -- and we have 96 waiting to be scrapped -- could sink. Any of them could rust through or break up. Anything could happen," he told Reuters in Berlin, where he attended a 14-nation meeting on the issue last week."

"On the beaches of the Barents Sea, near the Russian city of Murmansk, ex-Soviet nuclear submarines lie rotting, like ticking ecological time bombs.The Russians have called on German experts to help prevent disaster.",,3036461,00.html

"As Norway’s Foreign Ministry undertakes the $6.3 million dismantlement of a third nuclear submarine in Russia’s Northern Fleet, an independent report on two past projects completed by Oslo reveal that many safety practices were overlooked during the earlier efforts, and that authorities hindered access to observers to determine whether several other environmental safeguards were adhered to."

Japan to dismantle five more Russian subs

Explosion aboard Russian nuclear submarine kills one and elicits skeptical responses

netudiant said...

The size of a submarine reactor is much smaller that the commercial units, in the 50 megawatt class versus perhaps 1000 megawatts for a modern plant. That makes the scale of any potential problem somewhat more manageable.
However, radiation leakage in a military facility is a clear indication of a major breakdown.
While not good news, it may be a helpful reminder to the Chinese government that their people are just as fallible as those in the US, Russia or Japan. After the debacle of the high speed trains, whose control systems collapsed with a lightning strike, perhaps the leadership will be a little less credulous when their industry bureaucrats tell them tales of guaranteed safety.

Anonymous said...

Criticality events are special in that things tend to GET OUT OF HAND, QUICKLY.

Imagine yourself physically confined to the proximity of a criticality, neutrons & gammma sleeting through the area around, water boiling furiously, pipes rupturing.

90% enrichment is a roving bomb

I recall subs have a history of tritium leaks? tritium being a beta emitter, efficient at double strand DNA breaks

".. authorities hindered access to observers to determine whether several other environmental safeguards were adhered to."

Anonymous said...

Robbie001 sez:

Is China rushing to ruin? This article claims some regions in China have begun their preliminary work without permission from the National Nuclear Safety Agency. It also says, "Some of China’s reactors are close to absolutely enormous coastal cities such as Shanghai, Guangzhou-Hong Kong, and **Dalian**." So if China is having a naval reactor problem it is happening in a highly populated area.

"China will continue, probably accelerate, expansion of its nuclear power industry. Our field research in China leads us to have concerns, shared by many in China’s nuclear industry itself. Beijing should use its current suspension of new plant approvals to address concerns raised below."

"As we have seen in the rest of China’s economy, the breakneck quest for high growth by local leaders in the absence of effective regulation can produce dramatic national and global externalities—adulterated goods and toxic spills crossing international borders. Hence, the Fukushima nuclear accidents provide China with a rare opportunity to take a pause in its unbridled nuclear expansion and to assess how to move more safely into the future."

This thought has always been on my mind and it includes all nuclear nations. Just think of how shoddy the system is run in highly developed nations how do the poorer nations of the world deal with nuclear waste and accidents?

Anonymous said...

"Analysts say that Chinese authorities have regrettably backtracked from their openness exhibited during the Dalian disaster. Yet that spill started with a massive explosion that was impossible to hide. This year, Beijing —characteristically — tried to cover up the June incidents."

How Do You Hide an Oil Spill? Ask China.

"In China, only foreigners, whether or not culpable, pay."

Anonymous said...

mankind using nuclear energy can be compared to children playing with fire,because of the fact that we live in an age of slackness and trifleness it should be left alone.

Anonymous said...

The difference between the Chinese subs and Daiichi is people can sink a sub. The Russians sank all kinds incl. old fuel rod assemblies. When you build a nuke plant it is not underground where you can bury it, who knows why. It just goes to show that only the stupid military minds could cook up a system so flawed as the nuclear fission experiment. Of course, people pay them to kill and destroy and they are only following orders. May the goy nations be damned, give them the genie. And it goes to show the militarists controlled the propaganda and most people until now liked the whole idea. Reality bites! Ouch....

Anonymous said...

"When you build a nuke plant it is not underground where you can bury it, who knows why."

groundwater contamination

Underground is no solution, pipes are leaking underground at almost every reactor extant, very difficult to inspect.

Anonymous said...

"May the goy nations be damned ..." said the previous anonymous.

Hold on there! Mr Zionist(?).

If you are pro-Israel, then you know about the Dimona nuclear reactor and know that Israel has anything up to 200 nuclear weapons ... and you'd also know that Israel is the most militarized place on this planet.

Who, other than a Zionist Jew, would use the term "goy" for everyone else on this planet?

This is not the place to really raise the Zionist problem, but YOU inserted it; not I.

The word "troll" comes to mind.

Very many of us "goy" are waking up to the likes of you infiltrators into every sphere of life.

You might have gotten away with it if you had written something like, "Our entire species deserves to die, because of tampering with the atomic genie." But that is not what you wrote, is it!

Even if you had, I would have objected (but would not have bothered to reply) because the vast majority of we humans have had no say in the development of lethal nuclear technology.

Over the years millions of us have protested (myself amongst them, back in the 50s and 60s) to no effect.

Now I am an old man and I put my name to what I write, i.e. Gerry Hiles, though it is easier to post as Anon, for some reason.

Who are you non-goy?

Anonymous said...

The fuel used in submarine-based reactors is enriched to a significantly higher level than that used in land-side power plants. More power from a smaller core, where space is at a premium, ultimately producing a different profile of fission byproducts.

Even a small accident can thus have grievous consequences out of proportion to the reactor's nameplate rating. After all, it doesn't take much...

Melanie W. Naylor said...

Thanks for this article and the comments.

Anonymous said...

"China’s submarine fleet, numbering around 50 diesel-electric boats and another 10 or so nuclear vessels, is on average old and out-moded, ..

The nuclear designs are reportedly highly unreliable."

Anonymous said...

Robbie001 sez:

Jane's alludes to to possible loss of a trouble prone Chinese Type 092 nuclear sub in 1985. The Chinese claim they only build one example.

"A second of class was reported launched in 1982 and an unconfirmed report suggests that one of the two was lost in an accident in 1985."

It seems the Chinese were too eager with their first nuclear sub they just up and built it without any land based test reactors of course it was failure. Eventually they cobbled together a few workable examples.

Their newest vessel isn't world class either.

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