Sunday, July 17, 2011

Christopher Busby's Talk in Japan, July 17: From Air Filters, Plutonium in Fukushima, Uranium in Tokyo

It is ongoing right now, netcast live on USTREAM here.

I will watch the recording tomorrow (it's way past midnight here) and report to you in detail, but here's some of the things I caught in the beginning:

Shukan Gendai (Japanese weekly magazine) sent (I think) the air filters of the cars from Japan, one from Fukushima, the other from Tokyo. From the air filter from Fukushima, plutonium-239 was detected. From the air filter from Tokyo, uranium-235, tellurium-129.


Anonymous said...

Thank You! ..."all this" (or at least some) being translated into Finnish.

Keep on this good stuff.

FranSix said...

What continues to fascinate me about this story is just how little panic there is, and just how the public has not been evacuated or certain measures are being taken to prevent a public health disaster. Certainly there will be one on the scale of the Chernobyl aftermath. Perhaps the tsunami is a determining factor in the reaction to the nuclear disaster, but just the same, nobody is immune to the effects of radiation and still the denials come.

Anonymous said...

This Uranium in Tokyo is really worrying , thinking about the number of people leaving there .... me included :-).
The non-panic is linked to the non-information from the government and the strong desire of people to continue their life as before.
One engineer said to me once, that we treat the exhaust gas pollution that we see on cars ... this looks the same for radionucleids !!

Anonymous said...

I don't remember to have seen this news (june 27).

Radioactive urine.

"More than 3 millisieverts of radiation has been measured in the urine of 15 Fukushima residents of the village of Iitate and the town of Kawamata, confirming internal radiation exposure, it was learned Sunday.

Both are about 30 to 40 km from the Fukushima No. 1 power plant, which has been releasing radioactive material into the environment since the week of March 11, when the quake and tsunami caused core meltdowns.”"

arevamirpal::laprimavera said...

@anon @9:36AM, should have come to this site for the news..

Anonymous said...

I have been thinking about that too. I believe that in college I took a course in psychology that addressed part of the human response we are witnessing.
For an experiment, scientists asked a few people to sit in a dentist's waiting room and flip through magazines as if they were waiting for an appointment when they were really just participants in an experiment. They were told that an unsuspecting person would arrive and sit in the room with them. After 5 minutes, the researchers would begin to pump white smoke under a closed door leading to the waiting room. The experiment would test the reaction of the unsuspecting person when all of the other people in the room (secretly part of the experiment) look unconcerned that smoke was coming under the door - and this test would be repeated several different times using different unsuspecting people each time.
Then they would test several more people, one at a time, by testing how they respond when the other people pretending to be patients are instructed to act concerned when white smoke was blown under the door. The researchers found that if everyone else in the room pretended not to care about white smoke coming under the door - the unsuspecting test subject would not actually do anything (no matter how worried or fearful he was) even if the room completely filled with white smoke he would just silently sit there with the others pretending to look through magazines. But if others in the room responded as if they were worried or alarmed, the test subject would do something ( get up, feel the door, ask the nurse about the smoke etc.)
This experiment was performed in the United States and it revealed an alarming degree of conformity. How much more problematic would it be for the Japanese - especially if accepting the reality of what is happening would be so overwhelming even if the country had not just endured a tsunami.
I know about this research but I still feel myself behaving the same way! I live on the west coast and there were days when we walked around with a strong metallic taste in our mouths, UC Berkely was testing and finding radioactive contaminants in milk and produce in the San Francisco Bay area, Los Angeles was finding radioactive contaminants in the soil etc. and because everyone I interact with acts like this problem simply does not exist, I find myself telling myself I must be wrong, the problem isn't real, I must be over reacting or imagining things. I continue to question my judgement as every day goes by. I watch the Japanese act like everything is safe and I am torn between horror and disbelief - I wonder if I am wrong about the hazards they face because look at them - they aren't worried! Even though I know better - psychological manipulation is a strong force. The US says the radiation doesn't exist and turns off it's monitors and the population goes to sleep? Japan's officials are shown eating Fukushima produce with big smiles and their faces and the rest of Japan takes a bite too?

Anonymous said...

Go here for the latest on this and more...
Spread the word that MSM is not doing...

Anonymous said...

Hello all, Concrete man here:

I attended the Busby lecture and it was excellent except for the Q&A which was unmoderated and largely a waste of time. Japanese love to take over with some obscure questions and spend 30 minutes on those points instead of talking about the big picture. But the lecture which was interpreted by Tony Boys was was fascinating and terrifying (since I live in Tokyo) but in the end Busby's predictions for cancer deaths was about the same as he stated in his paper just after the accident, about 220,000 for Japan over fifty years. This does not include other diseases but is mainly people in the Fukushima area. He was very convincing that all of us in the Tokyo area have probably inhaled or ingested a number of alpha particles that are now lodged in our lungs and emitting radiation. This fact alone is terrifying and yet we are apparently not looking at 36 million deaths!

Busby's plan of action is to set up a Fukushima Study Fund in order to take this bull by the horns and do an end around the incompetent government. His plan sounded very sensible to me and would include not that much money or people, but a monitoring of folk's health and where cancers occur they would take their case to court and sue for millions. He proposes that the government should be monitoring the air around Fukushima in concentric rings going out hundred of kilometers (to see just how much crap we are breathing in!

He also showed how the International Nuclear Cabal is a totally corrupt and evil entity, and although he did not go into this aspect, it is surely rooted in the US Military Industrial Complex (see Anthony Hall ).

I am worried though the Japanese who love to bicker and get side tracked on inane side arguments will not be able to organize even this simple and straight forward plan. Also, since it is a foreigner proposing it it will take years for them to figure out how to make it Japanese. Good luck Japan! This is not to denigrate those many good hearted activists who are doing their best, just a rather cold hearted observation from a cynical old coot who has lived here twenty years.

Anonymous said...

@Concrete Man

Not to get into conspiracy theory territory, but there are reports of "agents" showing up on blogs, web forums and possibly talks like Busby's with an objective to stifle discussion or create dissonance. Someone hogging the Q&A with "some obscure questions and spend 30 minutes on those points" is perfectly placed to prevent a productive discussion.

Kyushu Electric attempt of asking their staff was a crude and dilettante attempt. A smarter player could easily hire some "PR agency" to do such things. It's not far fetched at all.

tony wilson said...

japan the worlds biggest nuclear ingestion toxicology experiment!
so this is now proof that new nuclear power stations need no containment no safety measures
those things are expensive and the fact that less than 2 percent of the population care enough to protest.
i assume now it will give this corrupt government a licence to burn,dump and hide the crime scene evidence.

Anonymous said...

"This Uranium in Tokyo is really worrying "

It should, it's an alpha emitter. Leave Tokyo, or stay and let them do the Communist China thing to you, hide the crime in impossible population numbers.

TomGard said...

First: Thanks a lot for this blog, that I (a german blogger) follow since two month.

Dr. Busby, going really mad meanwhile, for what I am sympathetic, when talking about what the Japanese could do about the situation, is not helpfull.

He wants them to ask for the evacuation of at least the children and mothers from the danger zones, incl. Tokio afap. Not any government, out of which ideology ever, would do so. Neither would the military, or, a fascist military would, but sacrifice some million people for "cleaning up" and send the kids in again.

Busby wants the Japanese to fund and run independent research the way he himself did in Fallujah, for indicting whomever for the damage done in order to get compensated.
What followed his research in Fallujah?
Right! The bombing of Tripolis.
Besides the activists would get silenced, one way or another, and Busby knows this, he even named a danish scientist silenced to avoid a much minor threat.

Besides, what good would come from jailing or even hanging the authorities and professional lyers? But these are the suggestions, Busby was applauded for - "swallow the blow but savour the revenge". This is mad in all senses.

If I were a resident in the danger zone, younger than 50y and/or having children, I would prepare to leave on my feet or by bycicle with only the undispensable shit packed with me and try to convince my neighbous to do like me and convince there neighbours to leave all together this way. Not in panic, but quiet and resolut. Shit can be buyed, life can not. And if I were an older man, I perhaps would do the same to encourage the others.

What could "they" do to them? Beating? Cutting? Shooting? Bombing them with DU?!

For the Japanese in the danger zone the time to suffer, to kling on, to get along and to participate has passed. They have the best chance ever to realize and to accept, that the prize of their daily happynesses might have become unbearable and perhaps was so befor the accident.

The Global Players wourld be forced to cope with such a quiet and resolute migration, it could not be leaved to the japanese society.
And it could be done. In Germany there is a lot of room to welcome at least 5 millions of those, who could resist a little xenophobia. Besides, for many Siberia could be quite an alternative, as Medvedev proposed several weeks ago.
It would be the best outcome for all of us, the japanese and the other people suffering slavery and slaughter off the same guys, that caused this catastrophy by doing or by letting. Exept the most dump and the most evil, which whom we'd have got to deal ...

Anonymous said...

I am not a nuke supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but people like Busby and Caldicott who band around hundreds of thousands or even millions will die are just the same as the nukers claiming "nobody has died" or "the tsunami claimed more lives than the rad" etc.

It seems that to get attention one needs a body count of sorts, and that's sad, as if it was a scale of measurement of a disaster.

220.000 over 50 years is 4400 annually - surely 0 would be better, don't get me wrong, but AFAIK with a common cancer rate of 40% over, say, in this case affected population of 25m, we'd be talking 220.000 on top of 10m, ~2% increase over 50 years - not nice but perhaps even manageable if you are prepared for it in terms of early diagnostics (not that I think anyone will be, but they could be).

However, the prevalent effect may well be non-fatal diseases (think bell curve) and that might get ugly.

Anonymous said...

If the Japanese want to run the risks of this radiation gauntlet, it would appear they have self-righteously watching too many episodes of Detroit Vice

anon @ 6:48,

We'll see about your numbers, more radiation released than all prior nuclear accidents!

Anonymous said...

Busby is correct, but the nubers are acordingly to the ratio at the present, but what we dont know is the size of the fallout.
And maping sould be first priority, because it will save life and reduce the dangers the people of Japan is in right now.
Tokyo is hitt wery hard and that contradicts the rad.readings earlyer on, and shows us that either the fission is there and mounting or the scale of it was mutch bigger that originaly stated and belived to actualy be.
And again is the lack of info to blame for this apearent "suprice".

And its about exremety, canser is the extrem solution to a cellstrukture, but before that the range of damage done at a "lower" level of ilnesses(like autoimune dissorder), would be considrable higher. On topp of that is the damage on the DNA structure, on humans and everything else on this planet.
The impact is sever, and sould not be underestemated.
Thats exactly whats been done today.
This is bad.

And still I will highligt the averness of ones surounding. Look for insects(spiders, bugs, ants etc.), small creatures and plants. Are there any change(ANY CHANGE) or sudden dispearances, you sould be worried.
Its a sign on heavy contaminating and its already killing or damaging life around you.
Look for it, its a sure sign and unmistacable.

Anonymous said...

"Tokyo is hitt wery hard "

No, Tokyo isn't hit very hard. Fukushima prefecture is hit very hard. What are your sources for this? All maps show Tokyo only being slightly touched.

I suppose if something isn't referenced to "Tokyo" that makes less dramatic. It's bad enough even without Tokyo being hit very hard.

Anonymous said...

Concrete man here:

Thank you to earlier commenters, I agree Busby's ideas about what to do may not all be the best strategy but at least he is proposing something, and they sound good anyway, the Japanese will have to figure out what to do if anything. The alternative is do nothing and let the cover up continue. Busby laid out the case as honestly as he could and told the truth about the situation, very scientifically I think, so there is room for disagreement but I don't believe we can see the chap is dishonest or some kind of infiltrator (not that anyone said that, but I have heard wild rumors on the internet!).

I don't think the people who hogged the mic were government provocateurs just eccentric Japanese intellectual types! ha. But you are right the government closely monitors activist groups and if they make any headway arrests can be made on false pretenses. It has happened before and they can be very cruel in their methods.

One thing I was thinking about though, a car air conditioner air filter driving up and down the highway is not the same thing as a person on the street breathing air. So we cannot take the experiment too literally. Certainly that filter would be absorbing air at much greater rate and intensity than a person. Nevertheless, it shows the presence of those hot particles and therefore we can assume many people in the Kanto area have indeed ingested a certain number of them, and they are lodged in our lungs today, as we speak.

Busby is not the one saying "hundreds of millions will die" such as some ridiculous article that was posted at Global Research, which basically relied on Caldicott's website. Caldicott is the opposite extreme of the Nuclear Cabal who say it is totally safe. Busby has not changed his predictions much if at all from March when he wrote his paper, 220,000 deaths in Japan over fifty years, mainly near Fukushima.

Anonymous said...

Busby's numbers are flawed, as his is science. He has made a career of exaggerating data, and everyone should know this. The real shame is that he polarizes everyone into competing camps: those who underestimate the potential danger, and those who overestimate it. For his wildly exaggerated estimate of cancers in Japan, he uses an average exposure estimate of 2 millisieverts per hour for everyone in a 100km zone. This rate of exposure doesn't exist anywhere in the 100km zone with the exception of the plant and excluded city of Futaba. Even in Fukushima city, where the radiation is substantially higher than before the accident, it is much lower than 2 mSv/hr. To assume everyone living in a 100km radius from the plant is receiving 2mSv/hr is extremely dishonest. Furthermore, he uses the controversial "Tondel" calculation, which claims an 11% cancer risk for ever 100,000Bq/m2. Despite the fact that this level of contamination doesn't exist in the vast majority of the region, the Tondel method itself is disputed by most scientists. Be that as it may, Busby takes the outrageous step of claiming that any diseases showing up in the populous will be the result of Fukushima. He says his calculations include, "heart disease, diabetes, and all the normal conditions and illnesses that contribute to mortality and morbidity". If everything is a result of Fukushima, then your data is absolutely of no value at all. Anti-science such as Busby's has the very real effect of making people assume the anti-nuclear viewpoint is full of crackpots and weirdos. There is a real danger to people living in the area and ingesting the food there, but it is obscured by charlatans such as Busby.

Anonymous said...

Busby runs a NPO. An NPO needs funding, too. You get funding by advertising yourself. Banding around death tolls, disease name etc. gets you some good PR.

Shame that the money rules everywhere. It corrupts everyone's credibility.

Anonymous said...

His air filter calculation is a little odd. He assumes 50% trapping of air by the filter (very important variable; a car air filter is not made for scientific sampling) and since the car was driving with the filter for four months, he spreads out the figures over four months.

I think all we can conclude reliably is that the substances were present in the air during that period, but trying to calculate concentrations is a little shaky. My feeling is that concentrations in March were very high for a relatively brief period after the the explosions and low/very low ever since.

Anonymous said...

"For his wildly exaggerated estimate of cancers in Japan, he uses an average exposure estimate of 2 millisieverts per hour for everyone in a 100km zone. "

2 MICROsieverts, not milli. Get your facts straight when you criticize someone otherwise it just makes you look like a troll/shill, which you may well be given the circumstances.

The 200,000 dead over 50 years is for those close to Fukushima. The numbers will be greater overall, which shouldn't be surprising given Chernobyl has probably surpassed 1 million deaths so far.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 6:36
Yes you are correct. I meant 2 microsieverts and not 2 millisieverts. Fukushima today is at 1.16 microsieverts. What circumstances might make me a shill? That I criticize Busby? This is exactly the muddled thinking that polarizes everyone. Anyone who does not believe Busby = Shill. Perfect. The 200,000+ cancers (note, he does not say deaths) he predicts for 50 years in the 100km - 200km range from Fukushima. This is a ridiculous number chosen for shock value only. And extrapolating the data out to 50 years for a rapidly aging population (and cynically including "the normal conditions and illnesses that contribute to mortality" makes the data laughable.

Love, The Shill

Anonymous said...

By the way, if 1 million people have died from Chernobyl, they must have hidden the bodies from the WHO.

Education beats hysteria every day.

Anonymous said...

This person claiming to debunk Busby sounds exactly like some disinformation artist using lies and innuendo, unsourced claims -- "most scientists" dismiss Busby etc. Of course the "scientists" working for the Nuclear Mafia dismiss him, otherwise they would be out of a job. The claims made are not supported by counter data, just "trust me I know what I am talking about" and ad hominem attacks. Classic disinfo (or just very poor arguments). That you cannot even get your facts straight, confusing millisieverts and microsieverts is ridiculous. Reminds me of Bob Nichols who confused releases per hour as per second, oh, no big deal.

If we think about it, Fukushima released 15 percent of Chernobyl, and if it is true a million people died from Chernobyl, considering Japan is much more densely populated, just that simple comparison makes 220,000 sound reasonable. Of course, if you believe the Nuclear Mafia almost NO ONE died at Chernobyl.

The Shill also trusts WHO sources. Yeah, rite.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure you all read an entertaining piece by George Monbiot titled "Why Fukushima made me stop worrying and love nuclear power" that appeared in UK's Guardian? The article appeared 10 days after the accident started. Busby's arch-enemy.

Anonymous said...

I used concrete examples when I debunked Busby. I didn't use any lies, innuendo, or unsourced claims. Busby claims an exposure of 2 microsieverts/hour for everyone living in the 100km zone, whereas in reality the number is far less than 1 microsieverts/hr. Busby includes "normal conditions" in his list of radioactive-caused ailments. These are not ad hominem attacks or claims, these are numbers from his own data vs the real measurements being made by public and private sources as of today. I don't ask anyone to trust me or my "poor" arguments. I suggest that everyone look at the data and the numbers for themselves.

The Shill

Anonymous said...

Whatever side your opinion:

1) you must decide whether you're pro or anti

2) you must never question statements made by "the authorities".

Anonymous said...

people living in japan are so frustrated,, we scared but what we can do? we wish to leave , migrate but how can we.? . can`t afford to go other country, with language barrier,, financial worries so sad living in a nightmare situation... here in my place , i ask a lot of people what are we going to do...we`re not rich like the tepco and the government officials n these people don`t bother n don`t care about us ,, die in pain?

TomGard said...

I don't have much more than a glimpse of the cultural aspects of the desaster, but also in this blog it seems to shine up, the clue of it might be, "they" took your children. And everyone stays to be a kid in some extend. So, since the cancers in the age median of about 25 shall multiply, Japanese have to take their pride and say "Stop", you don't take our children any more, they are our blood, not the blood of the nation to spill as it fits. With that pride, gathering and organizing comes by consequence.

Anonymous said...

L'amateur de chapeaux dit

Well, who wants to wear a beret now ?

Lantzelot said...

The main reason for why the majority of researchers do not take Busby seriously is because he has a tendency of handling data in a not so serious way, and several of his theories do not hold for scrutiny.

I can not tell if his measurement with the car filter is correct or not, 734 mBq/m3 sounds reasonable for Cs-137, the air levels were higher than that during the first few days after 11 March.

But I have personally observed him cherry-pick data last year when he tried to scare the people around the Baltic Sea with a claim about increased levels of breast cancer related to the Chernobyl disaster. He excluded the data that disagreed with his theory, and disregarded other factors. In January 2011 he did a similar thing by claiming huge releases of enriched uranium from the Hinkley Point nuclear power plant in the U.K.

In both cases one may say that the studies could be interesting if treated properly, but together with the alarmistic statements by Busby it shows that he should not be taken seriously at all. I feel very sorry for those in Japan who feel that they need Busby to help them, they deserve better.

Here are my scrutinies of his Baltic Sea study:
and the Hinkley Point study:

If anybody brings it up: Yes, I happen to be pro-nuclear, but I consider anti-nuclear groups to be very important in the debate about nuclear power. We can learn from each other, as long as we refrain from referring to Busby and similar scaremongers (or deniers who says that there is no risk at all). Busby could be right in some of his studies, but he needs to learn to stick to the truth, not cook up data in order to make them agree with his theories.

Anonymous said...

I think that we should ban this person who is debunking Busby from this list. He is a Nuclear Activist trying to spread dissinformation and make the nuclear industry look beautiful.
We are not ignorant you know?
We know Tokyo was hit hard, but it is convenient for you and you foes to forget that Busby is using the same calculation for London and Tokyo, so the difference holds. Then how do you explain the high level of contamination in school grounds in Koto Ku? And in Chiba? And how do you explain that the water in Tokyo was not recommanded to drink on the 17th?
You live in dreams and waste everyone time if you forget these things. Please get a life and study a little to built memory brain cells.

Anonymous said...

"The main reason for the majority of researcher not to take.."

is because the majority of researchers needs grant and jobs, and we have just learned too well from Fukushima that you nuclear activist can't be trusted at all, and Busby is on the right side of the population. You guys are out, you lost all credibility you could have. It is over, we don't trust you anymore, we trust the Busby, the Michio Kaku, the Gunderson, and all the independant, no matter how hard you are working on your war to durty their reputation. It is typical of people like you and people are not interested in you anymore.

Anonymous said...

No place in Koto-ku has 2 microsieverts per hour.
Nobody should be banned because they have a different opinion. Water in Tokyo was not recommended to drink because of radioactivity. The water in Tokyo has been free of radioactivity since April 4th.

Anonymous said...

"We know Tokyo was hit hard"

No it wasn't. Hello, wake up and check your Geiger counter. You'll see a number like 0.0xxxµSv/h.

Chiba/Tokatsu is a hot spot. Tokyo has close to nothing.

There was contamination in rain water everywhere in Kanto that day. Fukushima people are still struggling. Tokyo people didn't even have power outages, so stop whining about how bad you have it in Tokyo. Stop mentioning "Tokyo Tokyo" because you hope that others feel the drama of 30 million people in a big town are having a bad time. They don't.

Anonymous said...

anon @ 4:49,

"We know Tokyo was hit hard, but it is convenient for you and you foes to forget .. Then how do you explain ..?
And ..?
And how do you explain ..?
You live in dreams and waste everyone['s] time if you forget these things."

Their entire strategy is based on getting people to forget, so in the end, whether it even has any relevance for them anymore, they can say to themselves, "See, we are smarter than they are." That's all? That's all. They get paid to be "stoopid", as they say.

Any questions?

TomGard said...

@ Lantzelot et others

Arnie Gundersen, in 1 of his videos, puts the case simple, nearly tangible. In Tokyo, he tells his audience, they found in May - if I recall it right - 8 hot particles per Cubicmeter air, in Seattle there were 4 of them. That makes on average xy inhaled particles per person/day/year, I forgot the number. Not to tell the particles you digest by drinking and eating. Gundersen than points to a picture, that shows the damage, a single hot particle of that kind does to ape lung tissue, and says, with a lot of these damages our bodies can cope, but in some cases, they develope cancers.
I add:
You can't put it this simple with caesium, since that becomes metabolizes e.g. in muscle tissue and its part in cancerogenous processes is widely unknown.
And all of us know very well, there is more, than those hot particles and caesium, there is heavy metal of all kind, there is PCP, there is dioxin, there is a whole world of artificial cancerogens, and their effects are cumulating, though we don't know those onkogenetic processes in detail and for shure. Instead we know very well, they differ individually in quite a broad range.
I say, most of additional talking is at least futile, mostly cynical and all the way bullshit, incl. all statistical arguments. The youth cancer rates are rocketing and I personally might be a witness for that from one extreme wing of the process. My mother died at 44 from melanom, my father from bladder cancer at 63 after 8y of fighting, a friend of cervical cancer at 32 after two years suffering, and there are seven more cases, mostly still living, in the inner circle of friends, all in their 40ts or 50ts. Besides, three of my ex-girlfriends are suffering from autoimmune deseases, that are also boosted by environemental poisoning.
And in the very hour, I am writing this, my girlfriend got the message of the death of her stepmother, at the age of 49, cancer of the guts.

People like Lantzelot are like pusherman. They promise you sweet dreams of getting along with all that shit, selling death, at least in the intellectual order.
"If I was the president of this land, I would declare total war on the pusher man, I 'd cut it if it stands, shoot it, if it runs"

Anonymous said...

Arnie also said that the spent fuel pool of number 4 was obliterated.

It wasn't.

Lesson: don't believe everything you hear on the internet.

Lantzelot said...

Wow, it seems like nobody bothered to read until my last sentence. Interesting responses, including the indirect death threat from TomGard.

TomGard, do you have a link to the particular video by Gundersen that you mention?

I find most of the events related to Fukushima to be highly disturbing and there are many nasty surprises, there will probably be more of it. In the end it may even make me change my stance on nuclear power (being pro-nuclear does not mean that I stop thinking, I am critical to many aspects of it). But I do not buy into Busby's version of the story, not after seeing him cheating with data in order to scare people into thinking like him.

Recently we saw Janette Sherman and Joseph Mangano trying to pull a similar stunt by claiming increased child mortality in the US due to Fukushima. Once again a serious case of cherry-picking data (this time by a medical doctor!).
Anybody is welcome to believe in these people, but I do not understand the need to make it seem worse than it is by cheating with data. Aren't the events in Fukushima bad enough as they are?

Those of you who want to ban me for saying "I saw Busby cheating with data, I do not trust him", please scrutinize your own motives first, open discussion does not seem to be a high priority for you. Busby is repeatedly pointing fingers at others about conspiracies and lies. He might very well be right about some of them (I do not expect the nuclear industry to be less dirty than any other industry), just as some of his research may be correct. But if he is sincere he would not need to cheat with data himself.

Anonymous said...

Discussion is a good thing: Lantzelot please keep posting.

Anonymous said...

We need intelligent people commenting, no matter pro or anti whatever.

We don't need "everyone is going to die" or Israel conspiracy crap.

Lantzelot, netudiant, Robbie et al, please keep it going.


TomGard said...

@ Lantzelot
1. I don't ask for banning you and I am highly critical of people, who do so. In a pradoxal and escapistic manner they try to create delusion, similar to their opponents.

2. Talking of a "death thread" to you personally, direct or indirect, is ridiculous in the first place. BUT, on the other hand, I consciously tried to remind you and the reader, we don't have a theoretical debate here. We are acting. We act even if we don't want to, because the authorities in the japanese society DON'T act in an adequate manner. As it is lately and simply to judge from the fact, that the caesium 50k bq/kg soil near a playground in Kashima, 220 km south Fukushima, were not detected on the order of local administration, but initiative and costs of a citizen. So the guys at the administration are killing children, since there is vastly enough information about possible depositions and hot spots, to scrutinize the dangers for children. !As Busby DEMANDED it!
I don't count bodies, opposite to you and your likes. So you and I are acting in a situation about life and death. So I say we are at war, and it's deadly war. I declare war on you because of a single child, that might die, cause playing in the soils of Kashima shall drive it's sanity over the edge in two or 25 years, or even might die years later, when side effects of treatments contribute to its succumbing to another illness.
Yes, you may not be in the position to decide or influence japanese authorities, nor am I. I come to this, but I want to have the war point crystal clear first:
When someone, who is going to war, and is not a soldier, nor a mercenary (which, in theory, I would abate like maddogs) does not respect his foe in terms of respecting the very nature of the emnity, then he or she is lost, because he/she fights him/herself, that is to say the ambiguity of his mind and existence. So I respect you, as far as you don't act like a mercenary, and I read you.

3) You and I act in the EX-SFK-blog, not on your crusade against Busby. And here came up this guy, who weighed the additional cancers, Busby expects, against the actual overall cancer rates in Japan (if with correkt numbers, or not, is irrelevant). This argument was FORMALLY corrupt in the very way, that Busbys argument in the balic-sea case would have been corrupt, if you are right, that his presentation did not take in account the background effects in the data. (I say "formally", because one can argue for a preliminary not taking account of those effects, because overall increase of cancers is partly part of the case, with cumulative effects of different noxes. But I skip that here)
But you came forward trying to sew distrust in Busbys integrity over the baltic case and other cases, incl. the ridicule objection against a special part of his Fallujah-data of very minor importance (1), and all of that is fully irrelevant here, also your refuting of data or analysis of Janette Sherman and Joseph Manganot. What was relevant here, was the corrupt arguing of above mentioned guy, that you did'nt refute. To the opposite, cause your objections aim at the very same delusion: hide well known processes, that link radiation intake to deadly illnesses, behind a firewall of statistics.
That is the job of a mercenary. Or a mania of a stupid man, who argues at his own expense just to stick to his alignment with "his" authorities, which, above that, allow and encourage him to fight outlaws, like Busby INSTEAD.

I damn the pusher men, stupid or not.

(1) at the time the US-Army no longer denying, the argument with male/female birth ratio aimed at the sensitivity of this measure, not evidence for the effects, which are quite horribly visible.

TomGard said...

@ Lantzelot again
(because of the 4k sign limit)

4) I thank him for asking me the Gundersen - link. This question puts it NEARLY beyond doubt, that he acts hypocritic and methodicaly trying to circumvent the reasoning of his targets which in this case was quite clear and did'nt need neither data nor additional reasoning.
I guess like in germany, nearly every Kid in Japan and the US is taught, that incorporated radioactive material is toxic without ANY threshold. This fact derives from another fact, that the damage of radioacivity is above metabolical effects, which might come from the material itself, the physical and organic tissue- and cell- damage caused by the electromagnetic and partical energie of radiation. So the PHENOMENON of thresholds is a function of time and resistance of the bodys, and this resistance is a funktion of immunologic distinctivness, that lies partly in the genetic endowance, partly in the individual histories. So argueing, reasonning and, above all, calculating thresholds AS thresholds of radiation, that in fact are thresholds of individual resistance depending on time, place, endowance and history, is a theoretical slaughter, and a racist one above.

And thats basically all one has to know.

Anonymous said...

AFAIK 50kBq/m2 is about half the contamination of some parts of Western Europe after Chernobyl (Germany, Norway, UK etc.). What was done in those areas in 1986? Not much as far as I can remember. Perhaps Busby can dig up some numbers about millions of dead children in Europe in 1986.

The Kashiwa official's response might be frustrating if you demand ANY action, but it is not unreasonable given the precedence.

I suggest concentrating efforts on more drastically contaminated areas in Fukushima.

Anonymous said...

"50kBq/m2 is about half the contamination of some parts of Western Europe "

are you out of your mind? This information is false. Western Europe is far far les contaminated than that. Austria is 1000 bq/km2.
Tokyo is far worst than that.

How do you get to write these stupid things in blogs? 15$/h by the nuclear industry? Get a life please. Do something that will not get yourself and others killed.

the voice in your head said...

"Anonymous said...
L'amateur de chapeaux dit

Well, who wants to wear a beret now ?"


Anonymous said...

"How do you get to write these stupid things in blogs? 15$/h by the nuclear industry? Get a life please. Do something that will not get yourself and others killed."

JULY 21, 2011 7:37 AM

I think he's a dude from the nuclear physics forum. They reason like that there. They also make mistakes with real data and calculate stuff with fabricated data. Classic.

Anonymous said...

According to some scientists, the level of radiation in Austria reached 1654kBq per square meter. Nowhere in Tokyo comes close to that reading.

Anonymous said...

"are you out of your mind? This information is false. Western Europe is far far les contaminated than that. Austria is 1000 bq/km2.
Tokyo is far worst than that."

According to the IAEA (which are known to be paid by the nuclear industry!) the following countries in Western Europe had contamination levels between 37-185kBq/m2 in 1986: Sweden, Finland, Bulgaria, Austria, Norway, Greece, Slovenia, Italy, Moldovia, Switzerland. (page 8)

"How do you get to write these stupid things in blogs? 15$/h by the nuclear industry? Get a life please. Do something that will not get yourself and others killed."

Sure, thanks for great advice.

Lantzelot said...


"4) I thank him for asking me the Gundersen - link. This question puts it NEARLY beyond doubt, that he acts hypocritic and methodicaly trying to circumvent the reasoning of his targets which in this case was quite clear and did'nt need neither data nor additional reasoning."

As far as I recall it was you who brought Gundersen into the discussion. You talk about respect for the enemy (among all the words, words, words you write), but you do not show much of it when I indicate an interest in what you are writing (in spite of your not very friendly Steppenwolf-quote) and want to learn more about it.

So get off your high horses and give us a link so that we can hear for ourselves what Gundersen says, instead of having to rely on your bad memory. Do this, and I may consider spending another hour listening to Busby's talk and let you know my opinion on it.

The USTREAM link does not seem to work any more (or maybe it is my Linux version playing tricks on me), do you have an alternative link? I find another one from the site, but it is interrupted with advertisement all the time, quite annoying.

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