In tea-growing Shimada City in Shizuka Prefecture where the mayor of the city is in the waste management business, they have started to burn the disaster debris in earnest, now that the test incineration in the state-of-the-art melting furnace was done.
Someone was very unhappy about it, and let the city known in no uncertain terms.
From Yomiuri Shinbun (part; 5/28/2012):
「地獄に堕ちろ」がれき焼却の島田市にメール
"Go to hell" email to debris-burning Shimada City
東日本大震災で発生したがれきの受け入れを始めた静岡県島田市は２８日、「首を洗って待っていろよ」などと書かれたメール８通が、市の代表アドレスに届いたと発表した。
Shimada City in Shizuoka Prefecture started to accept the disaster debris from March 11, 2011 disaster. On May 28, the city announced that it received 8 emails to the city's email address including an email with the message "Wash your neck [and be ready to be executed by beheading] and wait for me."
受け入れに反発する内容が記載されており、市は、脅迫とも受け取れるとして、県警への被害届提出を検討している。
The emails express strong opposition to the city's acceptance of the debris. The city is considering filing a damage report with the prefectural police as they could be construed as threats.
市によると、メールは５月２０～２５日、同じアドレスから届き、「がれき焼却を続けるだと！」「地獄に堕(お)ちろ」などと書かれていた。
According to the city, the emails were sent from the same address between May 20 and 25, and contained the messages like "How dare you continue burning the debris!" and "Go to hell".
Not that I have much sympathy for the city government, but it is just one example of how divisive the national government's continued insistence on the wide-area disposal of disaster debris.
These emails could have also been sent by someone who is pro-incineration, to discredit the opponents.
The Japanese society has become not only radioactive but coarse, where pro-nuclear people and experts and anti-nuke counterparts not only go at each other but also scold or ridicule people in the "middle" who are trying to figure out what's going on. That middle is not a "silent majority". It is a silent minority dwindling fast, cowed by attacks from both sides.
Meanwhile, a city that is almost bankrupt in Osaka Prefecture wants to accept non-flammable disaster debris. The city, Izumisano City, desperately needs money.
"It's all about money, isn't it? If someone says no at 100 million yen, tell them you will double the money. If he still says no, then triple it. If he still says no, there will be someone else who will take that money anyway" - this is the gist of what Dr. Haruki Madarame of the Nuclear Safety Commission said in 2005 while he was still a professor at Tokyo University.
Dr. Madarame was talking about the nuclear fuel cycle and the final disposal site. It's the same with the disaster debris disposal, with pro-government researchers and the government money.
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32 comments:
Divisive? Somebody has to make a sensible decision, unless you think government by hysteria is an option. The choice is to leave it there for the next 50 years, or to get rid of it as quickly as possible. The sensible decision is the latter one.
They've announced the official results of the analysis of the fly ash after the incineration of Kitakyushu. The radioactive material was almost negligible and far below the danger level.
ampontan,
Why do you have to move the debris around the country to get rid of it? It would be faster to build facilities near the piles of debris. No. It's about money.
Also, leaving it there for 50 years will be fine if the unit 4 pool falls. No one will be living in Tohoku anyway.
Official results are reliable? Here in Virginia,USA, fly ash has cause numerous issues due to the toxic heavy metals. Cant see "below the danger level" for it..radiation or metals. A not so bright idea, contractor used fly ash for golf course fill in a housing area. Now the area homes are facing contamination, limited or no financial assistance. Sound familiar?
Offically, "fly ash" was safe....Sound Familiar?
Building new facilities in Miyagi and Iwate to be used once doesn't make sense.
Laprimavera, that comparison between spent nuclear fuel and tsunami debris is just dishonest.
ampontan - it would not take 50 years for miyagi and iwate to burn their own debris. maybe a year at most. in the meantime, not only is tohoku reconstruction advancing rapidly, but Sendai is even experiencing an economic boom the likes of which they haven't seen since the late 80's.
experts disagree about how harmful low level radiation is. It's like the 60's and 70's when cancer researchers knew there was something going on that linked smoking and cancer, but there was not absolute scientific proof because the studies to prove any kind of cancer link is difficult and takes avery long time. for low level radiation, most of the scientific work says its dangerous. how much is debatable. absolute proof may be a few more years away.
however, since there is NO NEED to move this waste around the country and burn it where it can contaminate relatively clean land, and because we know it is PROBABLY harmful, it is immoral and CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT to do this.
laprimavera - It would be news if nobody threatened them. Or maybe the story is that only one person found their web site? there's a LOT of anger out there. this does not surprise me. let's just hope that they don't act on their threats. Ant lets all demand that the government also stop their own terrorism of the public at large be ceasing immediately to allow this waste to leave the areas where it first fell.
@ampomtan, please opine what it means to "get rid of it.". Science is asking.
As usual, cops are called in to protect the government and the laws they make to protect themselves. They're not there for our public safety or interests.
I agree that official results are not reliable. The impression I get is they enjoy skewing test results by taking lots of tiny samples until they get one that is "relatively safe". They then use that to represent the rest. That way, it's technically not lying, just deceptive bullshit.
Also, radioactive material being "far below the danger level" means "not immediately fatal". No amount of radiation is "safe". If we keep playing around with non-lethal amounts, it's still going to collectively mess with the health of our species and planet in the long term.
I also agree that there's no need to burn the debris all over Japan or even rush to dispose of it. See how much time they're wasting with the debris, when their priority should be making sure the reactors don't explode and screw all of us.
If you gather a ton of "negligible" radiation and burn it together, what do you think will happen? Have they calculated the total amount of radiation that will result from that? I doubt it. If I recall correctly, burning it makes it much more dangerous, although I'm not sure if it's just a matter of dispersal.
If the debris is so negligible, it should be fine leaving it there while we focus on more important issues. But no, they're rushing to burn it and screw us even more. Burning the debris will be completely pointless if the reactors collapse afterwards. Their priorities are totally backwards. Of course, everything makes sense if they are intentionally trying to poison everyone.
In any case, it doesn't matter if they bury or burn it, it's still on this planet and it's going to work its way back to us through many ways that people still can't fully comprehend. This is the fatal mistake everyone is making. Just because they can't see or prove the immediate effects, they claim that it's "safe". All that radiation is going to be around a hell of a lot longer than any of us. Nobody can factually state that it's "safe", unless they have a time machine.
The Nuclear power people and their ilk have outdone Mao, Joe and Adolph in the number of people killed to suit their greed. This could be their "big one." An entire planet poisoned. And yet , it continues.
But months after this issue has arisen we still have no idea whatsoever how much radiatin is released from the chimneys. I emailed the MoE on their form, in English, per their guidelines, and got no reply. So did my friends. A chemist from Canada says you have to actually go down there and find out what make the incinerators are, what types of filters they are using etc. Otherwise it is all speculation. Of course there is not doubt as to the filters and ash being radioactive, and that being a serious issue in its own write if they are just dumping this crap in the middle of a field or in the bay. But to keep discussing this issue without any data is ridiculous and a waste of time, if not somewhat misleading (as the implication is that radiation is being sprayed out the incinerators). I imagine quite a bit is, but I don't know. The US EPA emailed me back directly the next day and said the US never burns radioactive debris, so the practice is definitely suspicious eh. It is amazing to me that NOT ONE reporter or researcher can come up with any real data. What a joke.
Spreading the debris around for widespread environmental dispersal makes as much sense as ordering patients with tuberculosis to cough over passengers in rush-hour trains.
No---you isolate people with dangerous infectuous diseases, so of course, radioactive waste should be kept isolated from (relatively) unaffected areas.
With all due sympathy for those who own land around the crippled reactors, that land should be condemned by the government, the owners paid a fair price, and the space used to store the waste for enough centuries that it eventually is safe to burn.
I thought the idea of spreading around the contamination was to prevent future medical claims of radiation poisoning. Hard to do if everyone has the same amount of radiation exposure. This line of self-protection by governments and industry is actually the perfect example of why the human race is not ready for nuclear power. It (and we) can not handle it morally and for the good of others.
Whoever emailed the 'go to hell' comment has it backwards. Hell is coming to Shimada City, created by 'hot' imported garbage. Repel the nuclear demons!
If you know what "ampontan" means in Japanese, you would understand what he writes and why he writes.
Despite what "ampomtan" (= person of stupidity) says, the fly ash registered 30 Bq/Kg in Ogura-Kita district 小倉北区, Kita-kyushu.
For this incineration, they mixed the contaminated debris with ordinary waste at the ratio of 1:10.
They are trying to fool people into buying into a false sense of safety by using the diluted contamination numbers of each burn when in fact, the resulting overall contamination over the community will be same as burning the debris without mixing.
Mixing increases each payload volume that goes into the incinerator, but it does not reduce the amount of contamination. It also contaminates the expensive incinerator, making 100% future burn radioactive, even when they burn only local garbage.
The Japanese Ministry of Environment is telling communities that a "bug filter" can remove over 99% of radiation and that is what they are using?#!
http://onodekita.sblo.jp/article/54807734.html
The JP Ministry of Environment officials also are telling the residents that "Cesium is not water soluble, therefore no need to worry about contaminating seeping into water supply!!!
http://onodekita.sblo.jp/article/55483245.html
Again, the Japanese media and reporters are easily fooled, they never check facts or hold the officials accountable.
anon above, that data supposedly showing 40% of radioactive materials escaping from the smoke stack is being contested by researchers, both by pro-wide area disposal side and anti-wide area disposal. I'm still reading up on that one.
Anonymous at 3:54 AM said:
"The impression I get is they enjoy skewing test results by taking lots of tiny samples until they get one that is "relatively safe". They then use that to represent the rest. That way, it's technically not lying, just deceptive bullshit."
You are reading my mind.
From the latest research results on a study, mentioned in this short article here:
http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/life/health/low-dose-ionising-radiation-is-harmful-to-health/
...that has covered 86,611 human Japanese atomic bomb survivors, over a period of 62 years you come to the conclusion that no amount of radiation is safe.
On the opposite side are "scientists" that use things like a 5 week study on 224 mice to prove that low doses of radiation are harmless for humans or even good for their health.
It is like you say. It's easy and cheap to do a vast lot of short-term studies on a few mice. One out of the lot will fit your purpose and prove your point. No need to tell about the "failed" studies...
But you are confusing "safe" with "zero risk". Some children die each year because of vaccinations. Either they have an allergic reaction to the vaccine, or some other complication develops. By the logic above we would have to conclude that vaccinations are not safe, and therefore we are unnecessarily risking our children's lives each time we vaccinate them. Similarly, there is radioactivity in almost every organic thing. From the logic above we would have to line ourselves in lead houses to avoid radon (because even a little radon is not safe). And heaven forbid we should eat a banana.
Hey ampontan,
Were you born stupid? Burning is the stupidest solution.
After all the lying by TEPCO and the Japanese Government...you believe it's far below the danger level? No such thing as a safe level, I hate to info you. Obviously, you know very little about radiation and it's effects on the human body.
Why don't you go spend a week near an incinerator and breath some of that clear air in from the stacks.
Burning it is the only idea you tool bags can come up with? Here's a better idea, bury the crap. Japan made it so, they own it. Stop spreading it all around the World, goofballs!
If they didn't build the damn nuclear power plants, there wouldn't be any radiation to deal with...DUH!
Get real....
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
I think the Japanese government and local governments are harnessing what is left of public trust and scientific ignorance (both of which are dwindling rapidly).
Tell the people that burning radiation makes it go away just like burning logs makes wood go away. So the people are not against it because some believe that most of the radiation (wood) goes away completely and only a little ash is left behind. But burning does not destroy radioactive material - burning destroys the products that the radioactive waste has contaminated and releases the radiation to go contaminate something else.
And yes - as someone said already, the government is trying to confuse the public by diluting the contamination so again the public is lead to believe that less radiation will remain.
I think this is the only way that Japan knows how to get the most radiation out of the country without paying to handle or store it. Burn it - send it into the air. Japanese people will breath it like human air filters. But much of it will be carried over the ocean to other countries and this will save Japan time, money etc. Burn it and let those Americans and other nations breath it.
And I believe the US nuclear industry isn't complaining because the Japanese know the US has been lying to the public about its own crimes.
You can tell a nuclear schill (or a simple fool) when they start comparing the Fukushima event with bananas.
Retarded!!!
Anonymous at MAY 29, 2012 3:36 PM said:
"But you are confusing "safe" with "zero risk". Some children die each year because of vaccinations. Either they have an allergic reaction to the vaccine, or some other complication develops. By the logic above we would have to conclude that vaccinations are not safe, and therefore we are unnecessarily risking our children's lives each time we vaccinate them. Similarly, there is radioactivity in almost every organic thing. From the logic above we would have to line ourselves in lead houses to avoid radon (because even a little radon is not safe). And heaven forbid we should eat a banana."
O.K. Here's the deal:
I stop using nuclear power (which I already did a long time ago, as far as I can influence it.) And I continue to do everything I am used to, even if it carries a tiny risk for me, because I need to do it in order to survive or I simply want to do it because it's fun.
You, on the other side, can continue splitting nuclei, but stop eating bananas, eating or drinking anything at all, living in a house, anything that carries a tiny risk.
After 10 or so days it will be highly likely that I still live a happy live. At the same time, for sure, there will be one dumbo less on this planet, a fact which might even help to improve mankinds gene pool - exactly what we need desperately, since Fukushima-Daiichi is spitting its content into the environment.
Anonymous at MAY 30, 2012 8:27 AM said:
You can tell a nuclear schill (or a simple fool) when they start comparing the Fukushima event with bananas.
LOL! This would be the shorter and better counterpart to my longer reply. By the way, "nuclear schill or a simple fool" could be shortened up even more, because one is a subset of the other.
The problem is, the uber-paranoid want it both ways. They want to be able to make fun of the radiation in bananas, but at the same time they want to convince everyone that 30 becquerels in a kilo of fly-ash is going to exterminate the planet. Then we get arguments such as the above, the kind wherein the poster says something like, "OK, you go live in Fukushima if you think its so safe" or some other childlike argument. We all live with radiation. We all live with risks. But nuclear risk brings out hyper-paranoia in some, and no logic in the world will convince them otherwise because the logic of rationality, to them, is the logic of a shill or a fool. Ironically, the poster above sanctions living with a tiny bit of risk because he/she needs to survive or because its fun - but then calls me a "dumbo" because I choose to do the same. But I dare not talk about risk on this board, because I will certainly be labeled a shill (or schill, if you like) or a fool or a dumbo.
to anon@3:07:
do you smoke tobacco? people like you used to belittle the people who said tobacco was bad for their health. we all know better now.
there is enough doubt about the safety of low level radioactive waste burning that we should all be as cautious as practical.
and yes, I'm sorry to say, I do think you're a shill.
Well, you “will certainly be labeled a shill (or schill, if you like) or a fool or a dumbo,” as long as you behave like all three.
Ample scientific evidence proves that we are correct to be very very concerned by the incompetence and mismanagement that the nuclear industry attempts to excuse by pointing to…bananas. YES! That is the best ‘response’ that you people have come up with. You seem to say ‘bananas exist therefore you shouldn’t care if the nuke industry dumps mass quantities of radioactive waste wherever and whenever it wants to.”
Aparently mathematics isn’t your best subject so I won’t bother trying to explain to you that the gov is trying to conceal just how much radioactive waste it really is burning in the ash – you just wouldn’t follow it.
But, there’s always hope that a shill can read. If so, please read the following publications which substantiate our concern about the nuclear tragedies going on (oh yes – the other ones like Chernobyl and TMI ‘go on’ in the lives of those they harm).
http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/life/health/low-dose-ionising-radiation-is-harmful-to-health/
http://www.strahlentelex.de/Yablokov%20Chernobyl%20book.pdf
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=030909156X
I know you don’t want facts to ruin your banana fantasies but here are a few.
Humans only absorb a tiny manageable amount of radioactive potassium (regardless of whether it is from bananas or elsewhere) and then the human body will not uptake any more.
This is not true of the radioactive waste generated by Chernobyl, Fukushima etc. – our bodies will absorb quite a toxic cocktail of radioactive waste (too much) before any upper level is reached.
Exposure to the radiation in bananas is not the same as the exposure to radiation in nuclear fuel and its byproducts. This fact is ignored (possibly intentionally) by the dosimetry equations pro nuke jerks like to throw at me on threads. This is partly due to ‘type’ of radiation (gamma, beta etc.) and partly because the energy level of potassium is different from the energy level of Uranium, Cesium etc. The fuels and by products give off energy that is more damaging to human tissue whereas the radiation given off by bananas occurs at an energy level less harmful to tissues. Want proof? Go read the EPA documents and Wiki pediat – then you’ll understand the coefficients in those dosimetry equations and why the format of the equation conceals the damaging difference between bananas and nuclear fuel. Oh…and waste like Cesium and Strontium collect in damaging amounts in sensitive areas of the body (heart muscle, bones etc.) and ….of course the potassium in bananas doesn’t!
Anonymous on MAY 30, 2012 3:07 PM said:
"...Ironically, the poster above sanctions living with a tiny bit of risk because he/she needs to survive or because its fun - but then calls me a "dumbo" because I choose to do the same..."
You clearly are not choosing to do the same. I was speaking about a "tiny risk for me" (tiny! and me!) for a reason, because it is very easy to predict, what a nuclear shill will come up with next. You are putting everyone else, even those who are not yet born for another thousand years and more, on a huge risk merely for your own financial gain or your career or your hobby. Nuclear power is only meeting 2 percent of mankind's energy needs (at least it was 2 percent before Fukushima happened). There are numerous other methods to produce electricity. Japan is currently demonstrating that a country can switch off 54 nuclear reactors within a year and live goes on. So, the rest of the world does not need your sick hobby and can only loose when you insist on having it.
The sooner japan exterminates itself the sooner they stop stinking up the world, want to be taken seriously japan? then stop iodine 131 emissions "that would be criticality signature isotope" and put those puppy's to sleep or you will all die, simple. FACTUAL, TRUE.
早く日本は早く、彼らが世界を臭い停止自体を退治する、真剣に日本取られるしたいですか？次に "臨界署名同位体であろう"ヨウ素131の排出を停止し、それらの子犬スリープ状態にあるを置くか、またはすべての単純な、死んでしまう。 TRUEの場合は、認定した事実。
Anon at 12:35, your Google translation doesn't make a bit of sense, and your English comment is just nasty, telling Japan to exterminate itself.
Your Japanese can't even be translated back into English.
I hope they find that guy who said go to hell and lock him up.
You can't have voices of dissent rattling the management of a communist nation. To hell with him and everyone else.
Anon at 12:35, the reason others disagree with your comments is because they are truthful and that frightens most people.
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